Another example wherein we disagree with our Salafi brethren

Another example, inshaAllah, from Sh. al-Uthaimeen's RH book عقيدة أهل السنة والجماعة



ونؤمن بأن الله عز وجل عليّ على خلقه بذاته وصفاته لقوله تعالـى: (وَهُوَ الْعَلِيُّ الْعَظِيمُ) (سورة البقرة من الآية:255) ، قوله: (وَهُوَ الْقَاهِرُ فَوْقَ عِبَادِهِ وَهُوَ الْحَكِيمُ الْخَبِيرُ) (الأنعام:18)

ونؤمن بأنه (خَلَقَ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضَ فِي سِتَّةِ أَيَّامٍ ثُمَّ اسْتَوَى عَلَى الْعَرْشِ يُدَبِّرُ الْأَمْرَ)(يونس:الآية3). واستـواؤه على العرش: علوه عليه بذاته علوَّاً خاصاً يليق بجلاله وعظمته لا يعلم كيفيتـه إلا هو.


The above was translated by the followers of sh. al-Uthaimeen RH as:

We believe that Allah is well above His creatures in His Person and His Attributes, because He says: "He is the High, the Great" (2:22); "He is Supreme over His servants, and He is the Wise, the All-aware" (6:18 ).

We believe that He "created the Heavens and the Earth in six days, then He settled Himself on the throne; He manages everything" (10:3). His "settling on the throne" means that He is sitting in person on His throne in a way that is becoming to His majesty and greatness. Nobody except He knows exactly how He is sitting.

[Taken from: http://www.markazibnabdulwahhab.com/ ]



As for the accuracy of the translation, well where does one start!?

BUT, It seems to me that they have tried to translate the passages in a manner that is as literal as possible!


So to them al-Uthaimeen's statement واستـواؤه على العرش means "settling on the throne" and علوه عليه بذاته علوَّاً خاصاً يليق بجلاله وعظمته لا يعلم كيفيتـه إلا هو means "that He is sitting in person on His throne in a way that is becoming to His majesty and greatness."


Tha accepted translation to our Salafi brethren seems very strange to me but I think that they are perhaps drawing from some of the shaykh's other statements - Allah knows best!

What is clear is that the translated statement contradicts the position of the majority of Ahlus Sunnah wal Jamaah on many issues.

For example, Imam al-Qurtubi and others explained the "Uluw" of Allah in terms of the Uluw of His Majesty, Attributes and Dominion and compare that to what has been mentioned above regarding "sitting in person on His throne, etc".


Anyway, let us put the translation to the side for the moment as some may argue that it is the translators fault [maybe he is an anthropomorphist??].

Even if one looks at the Arabic statement alone there are enough problems and contradictions within it are there not?

For example, the use of the innovated phrase "bi dhatihi" in relation to al-istiwa - something that I have not seen reported from the Salaf and actually contradicts the principle of "bila kayf" does it not?

Where is the proof in the Quran and Sunnah for its usage in relation to istiwa? Then, who from the first three generations used it?

In fact, the likes of Ibn Hajar, al-Dhahabi, Ibn al-Jawzi and others rejected its use due to the obvious anthropomorphic implications did they not?!

Ibn al-Jawzī said in Daf‘Shubah al-Tashbīh:

“Whoever says: He established Himself over the Throne bi dhātihi, has diverted the sense of the Qur’ānic verse to that of sensory perception.… The anthropomorphists said: He is established over the Throne ‘in person.’ But this addition is not related by anyone! It is only what they understood with their senses, namely, that one is not established other than with one’s own person.”


Now, some might say, NO, using the phrase bi dhatihi in relation to istiwa is not contradicting the principle of "bila kayf".

Then they would have disagreed with the Imam who the salafis always love to quote over and over on the issue of istiwa, Imam Ibn ‘Abd al-Barr [even though he was refuted and criticised for some errors on his part], because he held the position that to say bi dhātihi in the hadīth of descent is modality and is forbidden by Ahl al-Sunna. He states:

Others say that He descends with His Essence (bidhātihi). Ah.mad ibn ‘Abd Allāh told us that his father told him: Ah.mad ibn Khālid narrated to us: Yah.yā ibn ‘Uthmān ibn S.ālih. narrated to us in Egypt: “I heard Nu‘aym ibn H.ammād say the h.adīth of the descent as he was refuting the position of the Jahmiyya and Nu‘aym said: ‘He descends with His essence while He remains on His kursī.’” This is worthless in the view of the people of understanding among Ahl al-Sunna for it is a modality.”

[Ibn ‘Abd al-Barr, al-Tamhīd (7:144)]


Elsewhere, Imam Dhahabi rejects its use on many occasions:

Al-Dhahabī states in the Siyar: “There is no need for the expression bi dhātihi, and it disturbs the soul.”[Al-Dhahabī, Siyar (Arna’ūt. ed. 19:607).]


And Allah knows best

Some Examples of Where We Disagree With Our Salafi Brethren

Not to long ago I came across a reply by the late Shaykh al-Uthaimeen [rh] pertaining to al-istiwa:

http://www.ibnothaimeen.com/all/noor/article_793.shtml

Apart from some other errors the statement that I really had a problem accepting was the following:

عرشه واستوى عليه علوا واستقرارا يليق به

Now giving istawa in relation to Allah the meaning of istiqrar is not unique to the late shaykh but I have seen it posted mentioned by some of our other Salafi brothers as well.

What is our position towards such statements?

It can be found in al-Hafiz ibn Hajar al Asqalani's Fath al-Bari:

قوله (وقال مجاهد استوى: علا على العرش) وصله الفريابي عن ورقاء عن ابن أبي نجيح عنه قال ابن بطال اختلف الناس في الاستواء المذكور هنا فقالت المعتزلة معناه الاستيلاء بالقهر والغلبة واحتجوا بقول الشاعر: قد استوى بشر على العراق من غير ودم مهراق وقالت الجسمية معناه الاستقرار

Here is a translation of part of what is mentioned above:

The Mu`tazila said its meaning is "establishing dominion through subjugation and overpowering" (al-istila' bi al-qahr wa al-ghalaba), citing as a proof the saying of the poet: Bishr established mastery over Iraq without sword and without shedding blood.

The anthropomorphists (al-jismiyya) said: "Its meaning is settledness (al-istiqrar)."



This meaning was also rejected by Imam al-Izz Ibn Abdas Salaam:

قال الشيخ عز الدين بن عبد السلام رحمه الله ورضي عنه وعنّا به الحمد لله ذي العزة والجلال والقدرة والكمال والإنعام والإفضال الواحد الأحد الفردُ الصمد الذي لم يلد ولم يولد ولم يكن له كفوا أحد ليس بجسم مصوَّر ولا جوهرٍ محدودٍ مقدر ولا يشبه شيئا ولا يشبهه شيءٌ ولا تحيط به الجهات ولا تكتنفه الأرضون ولا السموات كان قبل أن كوَّن المكان ودبَّر الزمان وهو الآن على ما عليه كان خلَق الخلق وأعمالهم وقدّر أرزاقهم وآجالهم فكلُّ نعمة منه فهي فضلٌ وكلّ نقمة منه فهي عدلٌ (لا يُسئَلُ عمَّا يَفْعَلُ وَهُمْ يُسئَلُونَ ) استوى على العرش المجيد على الوجه الذي قاله وبالمعنى الذي أراده استواء منزها عن المماسَّة والاستقرار والتمكُّن والحلول والانتقال فتعالى الله الكبير المتعال عما يقوله أهل الغي والضلال بل لا يحمله العرشُ بل العرشُ وحملَتُه محمولون بلطف قدرته مقهورون في قبضته أحاط بكلِّ شيءٍ عِلما وأحصى كلَّ شيء عددا مطّلِعٌ على هواجس الضمائر وحركات الخواطر حيٌّ مريدٌ سميعٌ بصيرٌ عليمٌ قديرٌ متكلم بكلامٍ قديم أزليٍّ ليس بحرفٍ ولا صوت ولا يُتصوَّر في كلامه أن ينقلب مِداداً في الألواح والأوراق شكلا ترمُقه العيون والأحداق كما زعم أهل الحشو والنِّفاق بل الكتابة من أفعال العباد ولا يُتصوَّر في أفعالهم أن تكون قديمة ويجب احترامها لدلالتها على كلامه كما يجب احترام أسمائه لدلالتها على ذاته وحُقَّ لما دلَّ عليه وانتسب إليه أن يُعتقد عظمته وترعى حرمته ولذلك يجب احترام الكعبة والأنبياء والعُباد والصُّلحاء

Here is a short translation [Shaykh GF Haddad]:

What Allah Is Not

He is not a body endowed with form. He is not a substance confined by boundary or measurement. He resembles nothing and nothing resembles Him. Directions and sides do not encompass Him. Neither the earths nor the heavens contain Him.

His Preternity (Beginninglessness)

He was before He brought place and time into existence, and He is now as He ever was. (1)

His Acts

He created creatures as well as their actions. He decreed the extent of their sustenance and the term of their lives. Every benefit from Him is from His favor, and every punishment is from His justice. He will not be questioned as to what He does, but they will be questioned. (21:23)

He established Himself over the glorious Throne in the way that He says and the meaning He intends, “established” in a manner transcending contact (mumâssa), settledness (istiqrâr), fixity (tamakkun), indwelling (hulûl), or movement (intiqâl). (2)

Exalted is Allah the Greatest, the Most High, far above the claims of the people of error and misguidance! Never can the Throne carry Him, rather the Throne and the Throne-Bearers are carried up by the subtlety of His infinite might, and all are powerless (maqhûrûn) in His grasp. (3)


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The footnotes to the above also contain some important quotes:

Footnotes for the above:

(1)- Cf. hadith of the Prophet : kâna allâhu wa lâ shay’a ma‘ahu / ghayruhu / qablahu – “Allah existed and nothing existed together with Him / other than Him / before Him.” Narrated from Burayda by al-Hakim in al-Mustadrak (2:341), who declared it sound (sahîh) – al-Dhahabi concurred – and from ‘Imran ibn Husayn by Bukhari, Ibn Hibban with two sound chains in his Sahih (14:7 #6140, 14:11 #6142), and Ibn Abi Shayba in his Musannaf. See Appendix, “Allah is now as He ever was.”

(2) See the appendix entitled “Istiwâ’ is a Divine Act” in the translation of Bayhaqi’s al-Asma’ wa al-Sifat, published separately. Note that the “Salafis” deny most of the above: “ The ‘Salafis’ and Ibn Taymiyya assert that settledness takes place over the Throne…. Ibn Taymiyya strenuously asserts that Allah descends, and can be above (fawq) and below (taht) ‘without how’…. and that the school of the Salaf is the affirmation of everything that the Qur’an stated concerning aboveness (fawqiyya), belowness (tahtiyya), and establishment over the Throne.” Abu Zahra, al-Madhahib al-Islamiyya (p. 320-322). Ibn Rushd in Sharh al-‘Utbiyya stated that Malik’s position is: “The Throne is not Allah’s location of settledness (mawdi‘ istiqrâr Allâh).” As quoted in Fath al-Bari (1959 ed. 7:124 #3592).

(3) “We assert that Allah established Himself over the throne without His need (hâja) nor settlement (istiqrâr) upon it, for He it is Who preserves the Throne and other than it without needing any of them.” Abu Hanifa, Wasiyya al-Imam al-A‘zam ila Abi ‘Amr ‘Uthman al-Batti (p. 10). “Allah established Himself over the Throne in the sense that He said and the meaning that He wills, with an establishment that transcends touch, settlement, location, immanence, and displacement. The Throne does not carry him, rather the Throne and its carriers are carried by the subtleness of His power, subdued under His grip.” Al-Ash‘ari, al-Ibana ‘an Usul al-Diyana, Mahmud ed. (p. 21); Sabbagh ed. (p. 35),“The carrier of the Throne and of its carriers is in reality Allah Himself.” Abu Sulayman al-Khattabi (d. 386) as quoted in Bayhaqi, al-Asma’ wa al-Sifat (al-Hashidi ed. 2:279-280).


Here is how Ibn Hajar quoted Ibn Rushd's saying from Imam Malik:

قال أبو الوليد بن رشد في " شرح العتبية " إنما نهى مالك لئلا يسبق إلى وهم الجاهل أن العرش إذا تحرك يتحرك الله بحركته كما يقع للجالس منا على كرسيه، وليس العرش بموضع استقرار الله، تبارك الله وتنزه عن مشابهة خلقه.

And finally, here is Imam al-Bayhaqi on Istiwa and rejection of Istiqrar, in his al-I'tiqad:

الِاعْتِقَادُ لِلْبَيْهَقِيِّ >> بَابُ الْقَوْلِ فِي الِاسْتِوَاءِ >> " يَنْزِلُ اللَّهُ عَزَّ وَجَلَّ كُلَّ لَيْلَةٍ إِلَى سَمَاءِ الدُّنْيَا حِينَ56 أخبرنا علي بن محمد بن عبد الله بن بشران ، ثنا أحمد بن سلمان ، قال : قرئ على سليمان بن الأشعث ، وأخبرنا أبو علي الروذباري ، أنا أبو بكر بن داسة ، ثنا أبو داود ، ثنا القعنبي ، عن مالك ، عن ابن شهاب ، عن أبي سلمة بن عبد الرحمن ، وعن أبي عبد الله الأغر ، عن أبي هريرة ، رضي الله عنه ، أن رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم قال : " ينزل الله عز وجل كل ليلة إلى سماء الدنيا حين يبقى ثلث الليل الآخر فيقول : من يدعوني فأستجيب له ، من يسألني فأعطيه ، من يستغفرني فأغفر له " قال رحمه الله : وهذا حديث صحيح رواه جماعة من الصحابة عن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم ، وأصحاب الحديث فيما ورد به الكتاب والسنة من أمثال هذا ، ولم يتكلم أحد من الصحابة والتابعين في تأويله ، ثم إنهم على قسمين : منهم من قبله وآمن به ولم يؤوله ووكل علمه إلى الله ونفى الكيفية والتشبيه عنه . ومنهم من قبله وآمن به وحمله على وجه يصح استعماله في اللغة ولا يناقض التوحيد . وقد ذكرنا هاتين الطريقتين في كتاب الأسماء والصفات في المسائل التي تكلموا فيها من هذا الباب ، وفي الجملة يجب أن يعلم أن استواء الله سبحانه وتعالى ليس باستواء اعتدال عن اعوجاج ولا استقرار في مكان ، ولا مماسة لشيء من خلقه ، لكنه مستو على عرشه كما أخبر بلا كيف بلا أين ، بائن من جميع خلقه ، وأن إتيانه ليس بإتيان من مكان إلى مكان ، وأن مجيئه ليس بحركة ، وأن نزوله ليس بنقلة ، وأن نفسه ليس بجسم ، وأن وجهه ليس بصورة ، وأن يده ليست بجارحة ، وأن عينه ليست بحدقة ، وإنما هذه أوصاف جاء بها التوقيف ، فقلنا بها ونفينا عنها التكييف ، فقد قال : ليس كمثله شيء ، وقال : ولم يكن له كفوا أحد ، وقال : هل تعلم له سميا

[quotes courtesy of Sidi Abul Hasan]

Holding to Rulings Based on Custom...

In an important work of law, judicature and governement, the great Egyptian jurist of the Maliki school, Shihab al Din al Qarafi (d.684/1285) is asked the following question:


What is the correct view concerning those rulings found in the madhhab of al-Shafi, Malik and the rest, which have been deduced on the basis of habits and customs prevailing at the time these jurists reached these conclusions? When these customs change and the practice comes to indicate the opposite of what it used to, are the fatwas recorded in the manuals of the jurists rendered thereby defunct, it becoming incumbent to issue fatwas based on the new custom? Or is it to be said, we are mere followers of the independent, authoritative jurists. It is thus not our place to innovate new rulings, as we lack the qualifications to do so. We issue, therefore, fatwas according to what we find in the books handed down on the authority of the independent, authoritative jurists"?




In his answer, al-Qarafi emphatically affirms that a ruling remains valid only as long as the custom or circumstances on which it was based remains intact and retains the same implications it had at the time the ruling was originally reached. Thus, he responds:


Holding to rulings that have been deduced on the basis of custom, even after this custom has changed, is a violation of consensus (ijma) and an open display of ignorance of the religion.


[Quoted from an article by Shaykh Abdal Hakim Jackson]